Hunter: I've seen you described as an ''Outsider Visionary Artist'' -- does that aptly describe your work?

Long: I hate to be pigeonholed. But I suppose that at least some of my work would fall into that category.

Hunter: Let's break that down a bit and see how well it fits. Perhaps the biggest surprise would be the ''outsider artist'' part since many people who see your illustrations think they're done by an artist who's had a lot of schooling. But in fact you're a genuine ''outsider'' artist, a person with no formal training in that field and therefore ''outside'' the established art community, isn't that correct?

Long: That's correct. I have a Master's degree from Kansas State University -- but in music composition. The only formal art training I have received came in grade school. However, my dad was interested in art and encouraged me to read several how--to--draw books and the like. And both my parents were always encouraging me to draw, which I did about every chance I got for as long as I can remember.

Hunter: So you had no art classes in high school or college?

Long: My high school was small, offering only the basics. We had a total of 18 students in my graduating class.

Hunter: And that was a rural community wasn't it -- something else that often seems to encourage outsider artists to blossom.

Long: Yes, I'm not sure why outsider artists tend to come from rural areas -- though there may be a simple explanation. If they live where they can't find formal training they train themselves. Say, I should make one correction. I did have a single art course in college -- how to teach art to grade school students.

Hunter: That's an odd choice. How did that come about?

Long: By accident. I needed it to teach music to grade school students. Or so I thought. It turned out my adviser had made a mistake so I didn't need the course since I already had the needed ''teaching grade schools students'' class elsewhere. So my one college art class was an almost total waste of time all the way around. I spent time in that class being told to be sure that pupils pushed heavily with their crayons to get full color, used scissors carefully, etc., etc. I'm sure it would have been ideal for grade school teachers, but it was a drag for me at that time.

Hunter: So there really can be no argument that you're an outsider artist; with no formal training, you are in the ''outsider artist'' camp simply by definition. Now what about the ''Outsider Visionary Artist?'' Does that tag fit as well?

Long: I'm less comfortable with the ''visionary artist'' part, though it is accurate with some of my artwork.

Hunter: Visionary artists tend to portray apocalyptic events in their artwork, often finding their inspiration from the prophetic books of the Bible.

Long: I do have such work from time to time as well as end--of--the--world nuclear blasts, creatures from the grave, and so forth. I don't think all my work fits into the visionary category, but some definitely could be called visionary.

Hunter: And, if we hold that you're also an outsider artist, then the ''Outsider Visionary Artist,'' then that moniker probably fits at least part of the time.

Long: Some of the time.

Hunter: Much of your science fiction, fantasy, and horror pictures also seems to fit into that category as well.

Long: Yes, that's probably true. So perhaps ''Outsider Visionary Artist'' fits better than I thought.

Hunter: Many of your futuristic illustrations have a somewhat dark side, as does your religious artwork.

Long: (Laugh). Yes, that's true. People who know me are sometimes surprised at the sinister tone of some of my pictures. Likewise some of those familiar with my illustrations assume I must be some murky guy living in a dark, dank castle.

Hunter: But that disturbing tone seems to be a part of the visionary artist outlook, doesn't it?

Long: I suppose so. But one might say that about much of the art of the 20th century as well as (at least) the beginning of the 21st. With the horrific events in Nazi Germany as well as the slaughters overseen by the communists in Russia, China, Cambodia and elsewhere, it is hard for any medium that holds a mirror up to society not to have a pessimistic view of things. I think the important difference of the visionary artist is that he often has a feeling of hope in the future, due to his belief, and hope, in God.

Hunter: I know churches sometimes use your artwork in services. How did that come about? And does the dark tone of your artwork interfere with such use?

Long: I started getting requests from Christian groups to use my artwork after I started posting pieces on the web. Some of the visionary art seemed to dovetail with their needs, and so as people started writing to ask, I started creating PowerPoint versions for them to use. Some people are bothered by the dark feeling of some of the artwork -- one guy even wrote to inform me that he was certain I was the ''Spawn of Satan.''

Hunter: Really? Someone used those exact words?

Long: Verbatim. It was so weird that it was more funny than troubling. But I've had people note that today the message that there's a Hell or punishment for sins has about vanished, and along with it, artwork about these subjects. So from that standpoint I guess my visionary art fills a sort of niche market for churches needing to preach Hellfire and damnation sermons. As one of those who use my artwork noted, if there's no Hell, most people fail to see any real reason that they should give up sin.

Hunter: Most outsider art is, to be kind, crude if powerful and unique. Your work is much more polished. Why is that?

Long: Well, I suppose that it comes from years of drawing. A lot of outsider artists don't start producing work until midlife and therefore have the vision but not the skills needed for a polished work. Their work is powerful, but not well crafted. However there are holes in my abilities as well -- perspective, vanishing lines, and such are just done by the seat of my pants, by what looks right to my eye.

Hunter: Some of your artwork has perfect perspective and vanishing points.

Long: Not because of my talents, though. The saving grace for me is that I work digitally. Most of the current outsider artists who are well known work in oils or similar media. Coming at the tale end of this generation of outsider artists, and being interested in computers from about day one (in fact the first real electronic computer was created the year of my birth), I quickly adopted using computer graphics as a way to create art. And today many of the programs automatically plot out the proper perspective, vanishing points, and ''bluing'' of objects in the distance.

Hunter: So the computer does the heavy lifting of traditional art, freeing you to create without worrying so much about the rules.

Long: Exactly right.

Hunter: Outsider artists often produce huge amounts of artwork -- something that seems to be the case with you. You have a large amount of work on the Internet.

Long: Yes, I have, oh, probably several thousand pictures available at my site for people to see. Folks have come to the site and been lost there for days.

Hunter: And you have additional artwork?

Long: Tons. I have notebooks of stuff no one has every seen besides me. And lots of pictures on my computer as well.

Hunter: That seems to be another trait unique to outsider visionary artists: They produce art more for themselves than for an audience.

Long: I suppose that's true with what I'm doing. It's mostly for myself, produced almost compulsively. If it weren't for the Internet, I suppose no one would see anything I'm doing. Fortunately it only takes me about an hour to create a ''gallery'' of work and put it on the net.

Hunter: But you don't have work in any galleries or such?

Long: No. Nothing to date. Everyone's after me to produce signed Glicees of my work. But I don't seem to be able to jump that hurdle.

Hunter: Your work generally doesn't look all that digital. In fact some is easily mistaken for oils, one of the favorite mediums for outsider visionary artists.

Long: I strive for a ''painterly look.'' But it's all digital. I boxed up my pens and paintbrushes about ten years ago and have never looked back. I should note that there's still a lot of tinkering with the pictures, though. Even when a picture is completely rendered in a computer program, I never leave it at that. Instead I move it into a paint program (generally Photo Paint) and then modify it extensively, often to the point that it is barely recognizable from the original render.

Hunter: Your use of Photo Paint brings another interesting point about your work. You use quite a diverse collection of programs and techniques.

Long: Yes, I am not loyal to any given program. I use whatever will do the job at hand best and most quickly. I look at software like the tools on a workbench. If I need to cut a piece of wood, I use a saw. But trying to use the saw to cut paper is not a wise move. I know digital artists that try to do everything in one program. But to me that's like trying to use the saw to cut paper. My choice will always be the software ''scissors'' that will best do the job. My only loyalty is to the artwork.

Hunter: One might argue that you're an outsider artist when it comes to using the PC as well.

Long: (Laughs.) Yes, I have had ongoing battles with art directors who insist you can't do what I do on a PC. But that's changing, especially after HarperCollins released its first Digital Art for the 21st Century --

Hunter: -- which has one of your illustrations on the cover.

Long: Only by happenstance. The art editor wanted a black background for the cover and since I do such dark work, I won that by default. It pays to have a dark side, I guess.

Hunter: But back to the PC thing.

Long: Right. If you look at the current crop of digital artists, including those in Digital Art for the 21st Century, many are outsider artists like myself. And about half are using PCs rather than an Apple running Photoshop, more or less the standard for college art departments. So I can see a growing outsider movement of sorts that has broken away from the traditional art training and even traditional equipment and software, to some extent.

Hunter: Regardless of how your work is produced, your outsider visionary artwork is often breathtaking. Thanks for taking the time for this interview.

Long: It's been my pleasure.

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